ܘܝܩܝܦܕܝܐ:ܬܪܥܐ ܕܟܢܫܐ

ܨܝܢܐܝܬ ܐܘ ܨܝܢܝܬ

I'm a bit confused now when we should use ܨܝܢܐܝܬ and when to use ܨܝܢܝܬ. What or when should we use which form? Ofcourse I also mean with other languages. -- Michaelovic (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 21:26, 9 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

Diffidently with an Olaf. Payne-Smith mentions Syriac as ܣܘܪܝܐܝܬ and not ܣܘܪܝܝܬ.--Rafy (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 11:33, 10 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

That's also what I thought, until I saw this edit Michaelovic (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 12:49, 10 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

Forms ending in ܐܝܬ- are adverbs, so ܨܝܢܐܝܬ means "in Chinese" or, literally, "Chinese-ly". I don't think the form without the Alaph exists in classical Syriac, but we use it in the Neo-Aramaic languages (as in Sooreth/Soorit/Soorayt) and Hebrew seems to use it as well (`Ivreet = "Hebrew", Sooreet = "Syriac"). So the form without the Alaph means something different from the form with the Alaph.

Names like ܐܘܪܕܘ can't really take the ܐܝܬ- ending, so they should be prefixed with -ܒ (so ܒܐܘܪܕܘ rather than "ܐܘܪܕܘܐܝܬ", which is odd). --334a (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 16:59, 11 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your explanation. But isn't it a little bit contradictory to use a Neo-Aramaic form like it is a classical one, since you mention that the form without the Alapf doesn't exist in the classical way? Michaelovic (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 17:39, 11 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

Isn't using the Neo-Aramaic spelling ܬܘܪܟܝܐ also contradictory because that wouldn't have been spelled like that in the classical way? :) --334a (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 17:39, 12 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

That's true. So would you say that when we use ܨܝܢܝܬ in the current pages, we refere to the alternative Neo-Aramaic spelling? Because if that's the case, then I would be glad to see if we use both the classical and the modern way, like we do at ܛܘܪܩܝܐ for example.

In the Chinese language's page it would be like: "ܠܫܢܐ ܨܝܢܝܐ ܐܘ ܨܝܢܐܝܬ ܐܘ ܨܝܢܝܬ"

Or perhaps even better: "ܠܫܢܐ ܨܝܢܝܐ ܐܘ ܨܝܢܐܝܬ (ܒܠܫܢ̈ܐ ܐܪ̈ܡܝܐ ܚܕ̈ܬܬܐ: ܨܝܢܝܬ". Ofcourse this example would be appliable for other pages with modern alternatives in it, like ܛܘܪܩܝܐ/ܬܘܪܟܝܐ.

It is a suggestion, so please the both of you, let me know that you think of it. Michaelovic (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 19:43, 12 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

Like I said before, the form with Alaph is an adverb (so ܨܝܢܐܝܬ = "in Chinese"). It seems very awkward to introduce an article using that ("The Chinese language or in Chinese is...").

I actually just like the way it is now. Do we even use something like "ܨܝܢܝܬ" in the modern languages? Every Neo-Aramaic speaker I've ever heard just uses Arabic/English names for languages (except perhaps for ܣܘܪܝܬ). To say that "ܨܝܢܝܬ" is Neo-Aramaic is erroneous, I think.

By the way, I think "ܒܠܫܢ̈ܐ ܐܪ̈ܡܝܐ ܚܕ̈ܬܬܐ" is grammatically incorrect gender. It shouldn't have the extra Taw in there. ;) --334a (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 04:18, 13 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

I see your point now. Thank you for the explanation. Ofcourse the extra taw was a typo :-). Michaelovic (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 20:56, 14 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

Beth Mardutho back online

Wonderful news: Bethmardutho.org is back online with a brand new website!. Michaelovic (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 10:51, 10 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

foreign names

I have recently started creating links for the list of articles seen ܘܝܩܝܦܕܝܐ:ܡܟܬܒܘܬܐ_ܕܡܓܠܐ_ܠܟܠ_ܘܝܩܝܦܕܝܐ. An obvious obstacle is the way foreign names should be spelled. I have tryed to mostly transliterate them from Hebrew since it's the closest language to our's but some names still confuse me... For example is it ܒܢܣܢܬ or ܘܢܣܢܬ? and should we write ܘܘܪܗܘܠ or ܘܪܗܘܠ? and which one is more correct for wright: ܪܝܝܬ or ܪܐܝܬ?--Rafy (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 23:31, 14 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

You are doing a great job so far Rafy!. As for the transliteration, I see that you used different letters to transliterate one letter. One time ܒ for Vincent, and one time ܦ for Van. Try to stick to one choice when you transliterate. Since we use the ܒ for the B/V and the ܘ for the W, and the ܦ for P/F, I would transliterate it as "ܒܢܣܢܬ ܒܢ ܟܘܟ". As for the other words, that's difficult, since we usually don't have standard rules to transliterate foreign words. Everyone transliterates on his own way. I would say it's not wrong to choose between ܪܝܝܬ or ܪܐܝܬ, but I would ask myself in which way I would get the pronounciation right. Perhaps we should make a transliteration table for foreign letters.. Michaelovic (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 10:27, 15 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I will make at least one article daily, should improve my Syriac as well. Indeed we need to make up a some rules. A good way is to see how they transliterated Greek words to Syriac. So if I'm not wrong: t = ܛ. q, c, k = ܩ. and ch=ܟ (same as Hebrew afaik). but how about V? and ou and ei? 334a (ܡܡܠܠܐ • ܫܘܬܦܘܬ̈ܐ) have been working at wiktionary so he should have some ideas...--Rafy (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 10:45, 15 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)

In the same subject, is the English ch supposed to be transliterated as ܬܫ or as ܟ̰? Because I often see here the former (ܬܫܐܒܙ, ܬܫܐܕ). Also, I see ܓ (without the tilde) is often used to represent the English j. Is the tilde often dropped when writing without vocalization marks? TFighterPilot (ܡܡܠܠܐ) 17:50, 15 ܒܐܝܠܘܠ 2011 (UTC)