ܡܡܠܠܐ:ܦܐܬܐ ܪܝܫܝܬܐ/2009

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ܡܢ ܘܝܩܝܦܕܝܐ، ܐܝܢܣܩܠܘܦܕܝܐ ܚܐܪܬܐ

ܪܫܝܦܐ ܕܦܐܬܐ ܪܝܫܝܬܐ

...[ܫܚܠܦ]

I think that only titles and subjects should be in estrangela. More communication needs to take place in order to establish a legit aramaya lexicon

Guys, I am very confused. Our language is from left to right, not right to left. Whats going on? 141.217.84.79 22:02, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


What is this page about, and what is the Estrangelo header supposed to say?

Gareth Hughes w:User:Garzo

It's an open space for an Aramaic Wikipedia. The Syriac header (it's only Estrangelo if you use an Estrangelo font) is supposed to say "aramya".

Do you mean ܐܪܡܝܐ? - Garzo.

What's been written on the other side is d`ivrit., which might be 'in Hebrew' spelt wrongly. I'm wondering what this is supposed to mean, and which Aramaic language is going to be used here. - Garzo.

Not to mention the most important question of all... - VK

After a bit of a discussion at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages#Assyrian_Neo_Aramaic it's been decided that arc.wikipedia.org will be designated for Assyrian Neo Aramaic.

meta:BiDi workgroup[ܫܚܠܦ]

Gangleri 18:49, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Admin[ܫܚܠܦ]

--A2raya07 18:41, 3 March 2006 (UTC) ?How can I become an admin for ARC:Wikipedia

Please go to Meta:Request in order to request for an adminship. — Emrrans 17:03, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

This wikipedia should change its name to Syriac or Assyrian, assyrians never use the word aramaic in daily speech when they speak about the language. They say Surayt (west) and Surat (east), the english translation is Syriac and Assyrian.

ܟܰܕ ܩܳܪܶܝܢܰܢ ܠܶܫܳܢܰܐ ܕܥܰܡܳܐ ܐܳܬܽܘܪܳܝܳܐ ܫܡܶܗ ܒܚܰܝܶܐ ܥܝܳܕܳܝܶܐ ܣܳܟ ܠܳܐ ܐܳܡܪܶܝܢܰܢ ܐܳܪܳܡܳܝܳܐ، ܐܶܠܳܐ ܣܽܘܪܰܝܬ (ܒܠܶܥܙܳܐ ܡܰܥܪܒܳܝܳܐ) ܘܣܽܘܪܰܬ (ܒܠܶܥܙܳܐ ܡܰܕܢܚܳܝܳܐ). ܡܰܥܒܪܳܢܽܘܬܳܐ ܕܰܫܡܶܗ Assyrian ܐܰܘ Syriac ܐܺܝܬܰܘܗܝ ܒܶܐܢܓܠܺܝܫܳܝܳܐ. ܒܒܳܥܽܘ ܫܰܚܠܶܦܽܘܢ.

wikipedia[ܫܚܠܦ]

Hello, sorry for my english. Could someone please lay an interwikilink between en:wikipedia and your article about Wikipedia? Or, if the article doesn't exist yet, please create it. It has only to be a stub, but that way there is *something*. Thanks a lot. Effeietsanders

Chinese[ܫܚܠܦ]

I translated this into Chinse:

This subdomain is reserved for the creation of a Wikipedia in the Aramaic language." If you speak this language and think it would be cool to have your own Encyclopedia on the Internet then you can make it. Go ahead and start working on your Encyclopedia. "For more information go to the main website

I'm not a native speaker, so it could possibly have some errors


. --69.174.252.80 19:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Fonts[ܫܚܠܦ]

?My browser cannot display aramaic. Where can I found fonts

same problem here. many non-roman languages include a link to some explainations about it... why this page doesn't? 87.8.123.204 16:21, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

How come when i use the Estrangelo Edessa in MS Word 2003 All that appears is the square boxes, does anyone know why this is so. I have the font installed, and yet i still get the square boxes.

Rater than searching for aramaic font one should look for syriac fonts or assyrian (neo-aramaic) font.

My font in Fire fox has changed so now it's showing in syriac, and it's really confusing to read does anyone know of how i could change it back?

Hopefully this site can help anyone with font-changing problems: http://www.yeatsvision.com/Fonts.html

You can also go here to download Syriac fonts: http://www.bethmardutho.org/support/meltho/download/ --3345345335534 14:20, 23 ܢܝܣܢ 2008 (UTC)

[ܫܚܠܦ]

I've just created a logo for the Aramaic Wikipedia. If there aren't any objections, I would like to change the English logo to the Estrangela one as soon as possible. However, it needs to be protected first. --3345345335534 19:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It's now protected. --3345345335534 14:16, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Requesting sysop access.[ܫܚܠܦ]

I'm requesting sysop access for this wiki to delete spam articles, protect pages, etc. If anyone has an objection, voice your opinion. --3345345335534 20:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC) Done.

I won't object, That logo should be used!

Help![ܫܚܠܦ]


Very nice[ܫܚܠܦ]

I read this envyclopedia and I am glad to find something in Aramic, a language I can understand! 169.132.18.249 15:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Question[ܫܚܠܦ]

Just out of curiosity, is this wikipedia created in the ancient Aramaic language or some of the neo-Aramaic dialects still in use in some parts of the Middle East?

Neo-Aramaic. --3345345335534 14:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Is it possiable to write pages without having to click each letter? If anyone knows a faster way to type, i willing to write more pages.

--Fadi mikael 18:19, 10 ܢܝܣܢ 2008 (UTC)

ܘܙܟܙܦܕܙܐ ܒܠܫܢܐ ܐܪܡܐܗ[ܫܚܠܦ]

ܫܠܡܐ ܠܟܘܢ,

I don't speak Syriac but am familiar with more than one other form of Aramaic. I can understand the articles but find it hard to believe they are written correctly. As I said, I don't speak this particular dialect(s) but find this hard to believe it differs so much from Western and Biblical Aramaic. For example:

  • "Israel" is spelled "ܝܨܪܥܠ"? It appears to be absurd, in all other Semitic languages is is spelled with an ܐ sound insted of an ܥ and ܣ instead of ܨ.
  • Inconsistency with the spelling of the word ܝܠܗܿ / ܝܼܠܵܐ, or is it because of gender differences in this dialect? besides, this word is very odd, sounds French more than Aramaic (it does not appear in Biblical Aramaic and I think even not in Peshitta Aramaic (perhaps I am mistaken here)).
  • It appears that at least in the ܐܠܩܘܫ articles there aren't enough punctuation marks, like in "ܘܐܡܢܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ ܟܠܕܝܐ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ ..." it at least appears to be written unprofessional. I am sorry if I'm decrying someone's good work.

In short, very few of us know Syriac to the extant of foolproofing the articles in this Wikipedia, so I suggest whoever is a professional should declare himself or herself as one - so we know these articles are at least written correctly (I'm personally trying to learn through reading).

Tawde.88.155.193.103 22:21, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Tawde, your comments were very helpful. I myself write in the Assyrian Neo-Aramaic (an Eastern) dialect, which differs significantly from Western and especially Biblical Aramaic.
  • I'm to blame for the flubbing of "ܝܨܪܥܠ". I actually realized it a few days ago but forgot to change it. "ܨ" is indeed supposed to be in place of "ܣ", but I'm not sure about the ܥ/ܐ. I know that it's definately not `ayin, but I'm not sure if aleph is supposed to be in its place. I only know the basic Hebrew alphabet and not sure if aleph is a glottal stop in the Hebrew alphabet as well or just a vowel placeholder. If there is a glottal stop, then it should be ܝܣܪܐܠ, otherwise just ܝܣܪܠ. Luckily, there is no article on it.
  • "ܝܠܗܿ / ܝܼܠܵܐ" means "is" in modern Eastern Aramaic, and yes it's because of gender that the spellings are different. How do you say/spell "is" in Western or Biblical Aramaic?
  • The article on Alqosh was one of the first to be written on this wiki. Here's the thing: vowel marks (the specific ones I use, anyway) are only in the madnkhaya version of the Syriac alphabet. Not everyone who has Syriac font downloaded sees the same madnkhaya font. For example, if I use Internet Explorer, I see madnkhaya. If I use Firefox, I see serto. If I go to another computer, I see estrangela. Basically, it depends on the settings on the particular browser/computer. What I've been struggling with for some time now is whether or not to just stop using vowel marks and write as if I was writing estrangela. That way, anyone can read it no matter the font setting.

I personally am not an expert nor claim to be, but you're right in that we need one. --3345345335534 03:22, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

  • About the spelling of "Israel", א or ܐ is indeed a glottal stop... The square alphabet is the same as the Syriac in all but several consonantal variations.

Now I ask you (all) a question since I don't know the answer - Where does your dialect stand in relevance to the Edessa Peshitta dialect? Because if you compare, ܘܝܘܣܦ ܩܡ ܕܒܪ ܠܛܠܝܐ ܘܠܐܡܗ ܘܐܬܐ ܠܐܪܥܐ ܕܐܝܣܪܐܠ Matthew 2:21
This is a text from the Onkelos targum, written in Middle Western Aramaic in the square alphabet. Syriac transliteration is brought as well:

ואמר, לא יעקוב יתאמר עוד שמך - אלהין ישראל [ܘܐܡܪ, ܠܐ ܝܥܩܘܒ ܝܬܐܡܪ ܥܘܕ ܫܡܟ - ܐܠܗܝܢ ܝܫܪܐܠ] Genesis 32:24

Of course ܫ has a s sound since it is a left ש.
Anyway, words which are not forign (ie. found in historical texts of the Aramaic speaking people) should be spelled in a consistent manner. 3345345335534, do you have a dictionary to your specific dialect?

  • ܝܠܗܿ / ܝܼܠܵܐ actually sounds a bit like il est in French. In other Semitic languages you just use the third pronoun "he" if needed, and mostly it isn't. الكتاب كبير הספר גדול ܒܬܒܐ ܣܓܝ = the book is big. I also noticed you use ܚܐ as the indefinite article, this also in nonexistant in other semitic languages, but is found in French, English, etc.

Of course, if this is part of the dialect it is ought to be used here - as I said I was only a bit surprised.88.153.205.93 15:09, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Going through some other articles I would like to remark about the following:

  • ܓܪܝܟܝܐ = means Greek? In both Arabic and Hebrew the word for Greece is of the root yod + waw + nun... It again surprises me to see a western word instead of a traditional one.
  • Israel's neighbor also suffers a spelling disagreement :-) Aramaic's sisters would spell ܦܠܣܛܝܢ with a ܛ as the name of Palestine and not ܦܠܣܬܝܢ as it appears.
  • The word ܐܬܪܐ appears in the context of country. It means place in other Aramaics, are you sure this is the correct word for Syriac? (in Western and also in the Peshitta ܐܪܥܐ would be used).

88.153.205.93 17:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

  • I don't think ܫ is ever used to represent s in Syriac writing. In Biblical Aramaic maybe; definately not in modern writing.

I have no idea how close my specific dialect is to the dialect spoken in Edessa. I have an Arabic-Assyrian dictionary that's close to (if not exactly) my dialect. This dictionary does not have names of historical places, countries, etc., so I can't confirm the spellings of any places.

  • The spelling of ܝܠܗܿ / ܝܼܠܵܐ may be wrong and/or are used in the wrong places in this wiki, but I can confirm without a doubt that those words are present in (at least) my dialect. However, you're right in questioning ܚܐ as I'm not sure if it's right or even exists, though I think I've heard it spoken before. My grasp of the language is decent, not perfect, and I'm constantly finding and correcting past mistakes.
  • Both ܝܘܢܢܝܐ and ܓܪܝܟܝܐ are acceptable, at least in my dialect (although now it seems I've spelled ܓܪܝܟܝܐ wrong. It should be ܓܪܝܓܝܐ). The unorthodox spelling may be an English loanword from a few decades ago when the British held the mandate of Iraq. I'll change it to ܝܘܢܢܝܐ although I still think ܓܪܝܓܝܐ should be mentioned in the article.
  • ܦܠܣܬܝܢ should in fact be ܦܠܣܛܝܢ. My bad (again).
  • I can also confirm that ܐܬܪܐ means "country" and my Arabic-Assyrian dictionary can back that up (بلد - ܐܬܪܐ). Strangely, it also gives ܡܬܐ (village/town) as another definition. ܐܪܥܐ, to my understanding, means "land". --3345345335534 19:41, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Firstly about ܐܬܪܐ... Well, بلد means a city and not a country ;-) Its plural بلاد (kasra on the ب) means a country.
  • I understand that even inside the Syriac brach, the dialects are barely interchangeable? If so, this Wikipedia will never work unless:

Option 1: Each article (or section) will state the exact dialect in which it is written.
Option 2: All articles will follow a standardization to one dialect. Can you imagine what would Arabic Wikipedia be if everybody wrote in their own dialect :-) most are barely writable - this is why اللغة الفصحى (the literature language) is used.

  • Now, who exactly is in charge? The main page is quite over-packed with "This subdomain is reserved..." messages. Also pages in other languages show the link here as ܕܥܒܪܸܝܛ - which should probably be ܕܥܒܪܐܝܬ. In the Peshitta this means "In the language of the Jews" which at the time was Aramaic of course, but yet this is not the name of the language. Do your family call it this way? Where do they come from? Again, we need some kind of standardization.88.153.205.93 20:34, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Okay...now I'm just confused. The Arabic interwiki links for city and country say city is مدينة and country is بلد (while بلاد is just a redirect to بلد).

The English-Arabic dictionary I have supports this, and my Arabic-Assyrian dictionary translates مدينة into ܡܕܝܬܐ (city). Now I don't speak Arabic, so I just don't know.

  • If you write in the basic consonantal alphabet (no vowels), I think most dialects of Syriac are intelligible to native speakers. Now, apparently when this wiki was created they decided that it would be for Assyrian Neo-Aramaic. This list verifies that. However, is there an Aramaic language that is understood by all speakers? If there is, then I'm all for writing in that language.
  • No one is "in charge". There really isn't enough content yet to fill the main page with meaningful messages. We haven't even translated the interface yet. I'm aware the links say ܕܥܒܪܸܝܛ, I've been trying to change that for months now. Someone set up the link to say d`ivrit when the wiki was created apparently. My family calls it ܣܘܪܬ (again, Assyrian Neo-Aramaic on the list of Wikipedias) and their ancestors come from Hakkari (southeastern Turkey). The main page for Wikipedia, however, says ܐܪܡܝܐ. So we have one wiki with three names. --3345345335534 17:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Ok, balad is a city (or a village) and bilad are cities (this can explain the redirection) or country. madina also means a city (in Arabic and Western Aramaic (מדיתא)) (but means a country in Hebrew :-D ).

While بلد might be used in some literature or poetry in the meaning of a country, this is by far not exceptable in Arabic media today. Please trust me on Arabic and Hebrew issues, I'm from the now famous city of Haifa :-)

  • Well, most Aramaic speakers are Christians of the Church of the East, so I reckon they all should theoretically understand Peshitta Aramaic, can you understand it (you can find it in peshitta.org)? Maybe this should be voted on or surveyed.
  • It's a problem having no one in charge, especially with the d'ivrit problem (which is quite embarrassing). Is there a "Wikipedia Headquarters" we can write to?ܐܚܐ ܕܛܠܝܬܐ 20:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

First, I'm glad to see that you made an account and I don't have to call you 88.15x.xxx.xx or "Tawde" (I didn't get it until later. I would've spelled it tawdee :P. tawdee in Eastern Aramaic is basima/basimta). I see now that بلد = colloquial Arabic, دولة = formal Arabic? Anyway, if ܐܪܥܐ means "country" in Western Aramaic, how do you say "land"?

  • Actually, Peshitta Aramaic for a native speaker of Modern Aramaic is extremely hard to understand (and totally incomprehensible to a speaker like me). Sitting in church, nobody understands what the priest is saying. Like I said, maybe written Peshitta Aramaic (without vowels) might make a difference.
  • Why do you need someone in charge? If it's to change the d`ivrit thing, admins can't change it. Only those waaaaaaay up there can change it. I think a mailing list (Wikitech-l?) would work, although I look at that page and I become completely confused... --3345345335534 21:40, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I think I just solved the ܐܬܪܐ dispute: go to this site, click on Level Four, go to Lesson 104, and scroll right down to the bottom. Turns out we were both right. --3345345335534 22:42, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

  • balad is a word used in both formal and 'spoken' Arabic, always for city or town. Dawla in formal Arabic (and Dola in Palestinian spoken Arabic) is always a country, a synonym for bilad. As far as I know, in Middle Western Aramaic, land=country=ארעא(ܐܪܥܐ), like in modern Hebrew where land=country=ארץ(ܐܪܨ) :-)
  • Ok, I read more about Assyrian people and understood they use quite a uniform language with only two main dialects who are written nearly identically. This is the Assyrian Aramaic that unfortunately I know very little, but can help with quality control until I get a better grasp of the language (What do you think of the website you brought, does it teach well, or at least the correct language?).

So this should be the language of the Assyrian Wikipedia. But... If you look at Assyrian Neo-Aramaic you see it's ISO 639-2 code as syr while Western Neo-Aramaic has the arc code of this domain. The thing is, Modern Western Aramaic is spoken by such a small number of people in such a remote place, I doubt any of them has ever even heard of Wikipedia at all (No kidding, I know people in far less remote places in Australia who never heard of it).
For consistancy reasons, this whole subdomain should be moved to syr.wikipedia.org (so those waaaaaaay up there should be notified). ܐܚܐ ܕܛܠܝܬܐ 18:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The "two dialects": are you talking about Assyrian and Chaldean Neo-Aramaic? That website is okay for learning Syriac writing, but I don't think you could learn a language effectively from it. The webmaster tends to make things overly difficult by using complex words and linguistic speech (which helps if you're a linguist) and I've found that there are an insane amount of rules and exceptions for that particular dialect/writing. Although it uses Eastern Aramaic, some words I know, some are a little different, some I've never heard, and some are completely different from what I would think they are. I can't tell you if it's the correct language because I just don't know. It depends on where the webmaster learned it.

I'm not entirely sure if we should rely on the ISO 639-2 codes for language distinction. The code for Syriac (classical) is also syr, yet classical Syriac is just as incomprehensible to speakers of Neo-Aramaic as ancient Aramaic. --3345345335534 03:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

According to peshitta.org, the actual spelling of Israel is ܐܝܣܪܐܝܠ. I'll change the current spelling accordingly. --3345345335534 04:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Estrangela as standard script[ܫܚܠܦ]

AFAIK, there is two dialects, eastern and western. the difference is fonts and vowels. why not use estrangela as standard script so that both two can understand what they are reading, thus making estrangela the standard script taking over the newer serto and nestorian. and maybe adapt a vowel system to the estrangela script, creating some kind of a new modern syriac standard. if we want to reinvent the script in order to use it preventing it from extinction, this could be a solution.. using estrangela as new standard. if not why not?

Depending on your font settings, one could already have Estrangela as the font displayed. Or Madnkhaya or Serto. As for inventing new vowel marks for Estrangela, there's no need. Madnkhaya has vowel marks and is, for the most part, very similar to Estrangela. One doesn't need vowel marks for comprehension, only pronunciation (like Arabic and Hebrew). --3345345335534 02:24, 25 ܐܕܪ 2007 (UTC)

German link anchor text[ܫܚܠܦ]

The German link anchortext should be altered from "aramäischen" to "Armäisch" since it's about the language, not a male armaic thing in dative case. :-) Greetings --Purodha 09:50, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Good eye, Purodha. --3345345335534 01:46, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Installing Syriac font support.[ܫܚܠܦ]

(This is a rudimentary beginning - I suggest to put it on a more elaborate support page like in other wikipedias, e.g. te:, si:, am:, etc. This is how it worked for a particular Institute computer. Note that its system had lots of other fonts+script support already installed, which may be needed for Syriac, too, but likely went unrecognized in the below text. --Purodha 10:35, 9 May 2007 (UTC))


On the Beth Mardutho Institute's Website, go to the Meltho Font page, procedd to Download Fonts, and fill the form, then proceed to Download Meltho Fonts then choose the file(s) appropriate to your operating system.

Further installation depends on your operating system, and is "as usual".

Windows[ܫܚܠܦ]

If your system supports the MSI installer, choose it for downloading, and double click it thereafter unless it starts installing automatically. If your Windows system does not support the MSI installer, download the .zip file, and unpack its content into your systems fonts directory, usually \WINDOWS\FONTS\ You may as well unpack it in a temporary directory, e.g. using the free-for-a-testdrive WinZip Utility, and then install the fonts via " Start > Settings > Control Panel > Fonts > Install new font " from the temporary directory. Delete the temporary direcory, respective the unpacked files, afterwards, since they will never be used again.

The BethMardu site is Down, Does anyone know where i could get the font necessary to display and use in ms word 2003?

Polish[ܫܚܠܦ]

On the main aramaic wikipedia page, the link to the polish name of the aramaic language is labelled "aramejskim" in polish this is the instrumentalis form, the correct nominativ should be "aramejski". It is write protected so I can't fix it

Done. --3345345335534 02:30, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

French name of the language[ܫܚܠܦ]

In French, we would say Araméen, araméenne is the feminine form of the adjective.

207.134.118.119 00:37, 23 ܐܒ 2007 (UTC)

Done. --3345345335534 15:00, 23 ܐܒ 2007 (UTC)

Why[ܫܚܠܦ]

Why are we speaking in english

We're not, we're speaking in Aramaic. By extreme coincidence the two languages are exactly the same. ;)

All jokes aside, there are various dialects/scripts in Aramaic and they're all fairly different from one another. That, coupled with the fact that native AND literate Aramaic speakers are rare, we use English as a common medium so everyone is able to understand. --3345345335534 16:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

God bless[ܫܚܠܦ]

God bless you guys. Greetings to Patriarch Delly. Tetha malkoothak69.157.240.225 18:07, 9 ܚܙܝܪܢ 2008 (UTC)h


In Spanish[ܫܚܠܦ]

In Spanish we say ArameO, not ArameA, that's Esperanto. Ghange it please. --85.54.132.9 20:24, 18 ܚܙܝܪܢ 2008 (UTC)

(no title)[ܫܚܠܦ]

How do you convert this page into Assyrian Syriac Script? I cannot read estrangelo letters and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how I am able to convert all these estrangelo letters into Assyrian Syriac Script using some sort of program? Thanks for the help! :-D

Shlama,

The font displayed (whether it be Estrangela, Madhnxaya, or Serta), is wholly dependent on your browser settings. If you're using Internet Explorer and you have the Meltho fonts installed, go into Tools > Internet Options > Fonts > Syriac and change the font that is set there. I don't know how you would change it for other browsers, but I guess it would be the same idea: just change your font settings. --3345345335534 03:58, 7 ܬܫܪܝܢ ܩܕܝܡ 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to syriac[ܫܚܠܦ]

It is also written in latin:shlmʾ lk mn wyqypdyʾ dlshn̈ʾ ʾr̈myʾ!

Hebrew: סהלמʾ לך מן ויקיפדיʾ דלסהנ̈ʾ ʾר̈מיʾ!

It is also written in Arabic

سهلمء لك من ويقيپديء دلسهن̈ء ءر̈ميء!

featured article[ܫܚܠܦ]

Hello people, I don't know aramic languagem but I do care about the sake of that language. a featured article would be good for courging people to type long articles. another thing, transulting the english titles to an Aramic one (even editing buttons) would be great. and have best wishes (from here Yemen).

By the way, am really dying to learn aramic and I want to help in here too, once I learn it really well I'll help as I can...82.114.160.35 16:28, 14 ܐܕܪ 2009 (UTC)

Small request[ܫܚܠܦ]

Hello! I am a Polish wikipedian and I would like to ask you for your help - writing a new article about former Polish President who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1983 – Lech Wałęsa. I have looked for his biography in your Wikipedia but without success. Polish Wikipedians will be grateful for your help. Thank you so much in advance! PS you can find the English version of the article here. Best wishes from Poland, Patrol110 09:48, 13 ܬܫܪܝܢ ܒ 2009 (UTC)

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